Transcript: The Leadership Ceiling No One Wants to Face

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Mitch Simon 0:10
Welcome to another episode of team anywhere where CEOs, leaders and experts are building teams, companies, organizations, and amazing cultures

Ginny Bianco-Mathis 0:22
share how to lead from anywhere in the world. I’m your co host on the East Coast chicken Bianca Mathis,

Mitch Simon 0:28
and I’m your co host on the West Coast. Mitch Simon. And we invite you to join us to Team anywhere.

We’ve all heard about the amazing power of gratitude. But can gratitude lead people to be better problem solvers? Can gratitude lead to cross functional teams coming together? Can gratitude lead to greater levels of productivity? In today’s episode, we interview Lexi Thompson, author of the recently released book the power of a graceful leader. In this episode, Lexi uncovers how gratitude leads to creating new possibilities, and even helped a leader she coached succeed in a turnaround.

Ginny Bianco-Mathis 1:17
Welcome to another episode of team anywhere. And I am happy to be here with my co host, Mitch Simon on the west coast. And I’m on the east coast. And we are thrilled today to have the wonderful Lexi Thompson, who is going to share with us the work she has done in the field of the power of a graceful leader. And in fact, that is the name of her new book. But she will share with us. And Lexie has been an agile still is for the center of Creative Leadership, which is quite a lift that is fabulous. And is part of the Forbes coaching Council. And she’s known for developing the tribal gratitude journals and will probably hear a little bit about that also. So welcome, Lexi. Thank you. It’s great to be here. Saying say say just thrilled, as I already mentioned. So to begin, would love to hear about what your year has been like, I don’t think any group can get together without having a discussion. What has been the influence on you? How have you grown? Have you navigated it?

Unknown Speaker 2:35
Yeah, so I’m the and you’re in relationship to COVID, I’m guessing is where we’re going with this, right. So I had a practice of flying places every month for half a month at a time. And that stopped completely. And then some revenue that what would that fine went with it right? So I remember the moment in March when I went, Oh, this is quite interesting. I’m not sure where this is going to go, how long this is going to last. Within three days. several clients called and said, Hey, we don’t know what to tell you. We’re gonna have to cancel this and cancel. And oddly enough, I remember feeling a lot of relief. So well, I saw the bank account quit quickly going, Oh, that’s not gonna happen. And that’s not gonna happen. I also didn’t see myself driving to the airport to get on a plane to be somewhere. I thought that was an interesting internal response to many 1000s of dollars going down the toilet. I would have expected that I would panic. And I was pleasantly surprised to see that I did not panic. It’s not to say that I didn’t have moments of panic after that moment. moment. I didn’t. That wasn’t my first instinctive response. And I’m an introvert by nature. And so I think that was probably part of it was like, Hey, I don’t have to do the grind kind of thing. Yeah, I love going once I’m there, I’m fine. It’s like going to the gym. It’s just getting there. Yes. But I think COVID for me has had a another impact was we’re opening we’ve opened up are in the process of opening a Leadership Retreat Center here in Vermont. So you can imagine that either right, yeah, we had lined up a couple we were gonna open full steam fall of last year. Well, that hasn’t happened and still hasn’t happened. And so it was it was a humbling experience on many way many levels to to understand the lack of control that I have at large. I’m sure a lot of us have reckoned with that as a result of this impact. However, it’s come for you. But I have a really robust gratitude practice and as a result, I’ll sit in the wallow for a while but I don’t spend lots of time there. I’m looking for that. The creative opportunity that sits on the other side of most of these things. And it resulted in finishing that book that we’re about ready to talk about. Yes. Yeah.

Ginny Bianco-Mathis 5:14
Yeah, I was so thrilled when I saw it being introduced. So let’s move to that. You highlight three main components of the graceful leadership, integration, alignment and flow. Could you talk about those a little bit, please? Sure. So

Unknown Speaker 5:33
I’ve been in the executive leadership space and coaching and consulting for a couple of decades now. And one of the things that I have found that I, I enjoy, and it’s just kind of innate is I look for patterns. And they obviously, if you’re looking for them, they’ll present themselves. And so those three things seem to be consistent personal and professional barriers as leaders work to ascend in their career path. And, and, and quite intimate, as well, right. So you talk to someone about are you in your flow? They kind of look at you like, I don’t even know what you’re asking me. Right. So then you go, Okay, well, are you in? Are you in alignment? They’re like, Well, yeah, meeting all my goals, my metrics are through the roof. And you’re like, Yeah, not quite what I was thinking. But that’s great, right? We definitely need those performance things. And then integration wasn’t even worth talking about. Because if we couldn’t go to flow and ally in alignment, integration was definitely if it was happening. In some cases, it was happening, it was definitely not a conscious, intentional event. So that’s kind of how the three of these kind of came into being to explore.

Ginny Bianco-Mathis 6:42
So share with us an example of this leader, who is working with his or her team. And he’s been flown one word, what actions would we see? What behaviors would we see?

Unknown Speaker 6:56
Yeah, so I think that that’s, there’s some big variables about the person’s strengths set and, and their orientation to their their craft. But some common themes that I’ve seen is that when a leader is in flow, they are, they’re there. And they’re not called in very often, because they’ve deployed a team that’s capable of innovating and problem solving. And so they’re, they’re there to remove barriers or open doors. And, and that’s all they need to do. But that’s a very vulnerable place for a leader to be because prior to that moment, you’re also acknowledging the fact that you aren’t really needed anymore, right. And while we all talk about having a strong bench and making sure you have succession planning, when it comes to knocking on your own door, it’s a very vulnerable place to be. But it’s almost a prerequisite to knowing that you’re finding flow as a leader. Because the more you’re in your flow, the less you’re doing the command and control type of leading, and you’re kind of just kind of becoming lazy, that bumper, the bumpers on the bowling alley, right, you’re there, but they don’t need you very often, they kind of have to bump in to know that you’re even there. And, and that I think that’s a kind of a good clue to know when you’re in flow. And, and what it would feel like, and what it could look like to people watching. Right? Mm hmm.

Ginny Bianco-Mathis 8:17
I like your analogy of the bowling alley and the bumpers that so a person a leader comes to you and says, like you said already? I’m doing well. Um, I hear you do some cool things with leaders. You can help me get to a place I’m not act.

Unknown Speaker 8:40
Yeah. What

Ginny Bianco-Mathis 8:40
kind of questions? Do you ask that leader?

Unknown Speaker 8:46
I mean, yeah, in that particular situation, I’d be like, well, what makes you think you’re not where you need to be, you know, where’s this utopia of a place you think you should be talking about? And, and oftentimes, that leads into a pretty personal situation or conversation around, you know, I, I wake up in the morning, and I’m nailing it, and I’m making a buttload of money. But man, there’s got to be something else. There’s not be all that there is as a leader and as a as maybe a business owner. And so that’s a that’s a deep conversation into looking at alignment and understanding. Okay, so if that’s if that’s the truth, or that’s the thing you want to explore, then let’s look at a future state of what you can imagine, you know, we talk about goals, what’s your five year goal? What’s your 10 year goal? But very often, we don’t ask people how does it feel when you’re five years down the road? What are the metrics for five years down the road and we answer 20% revenue for new offices. I’m just sitting around the world. But how does that feel because if I was to give you that scenario as success, which I would have at one point in my career, I would have slowed down and told you that didn’t feel good. I didn’t want To be sending around the world I didn’t want to be responsible for for new stores. You know, that’s kind of where you start to get really honest about who you are and what you do.

Ginny Bianco-Mathis 10:11
I love that. And now again, I’m going to push you on. Now you have this team. And I’m starting to realize this myself, okay? And I’m trying to be more aligned about this inner peace of me. We’ve been hearing a lot of things around, be more mindful, ask more questions, reach out in a more emotional way. arm. Again, what kind of techniques and I know, we don’t like to say, Oh, just plaster these techniques, and you’re going to be aligned. And yet there are certain practice things. What What have you seen worked?

Unknown Speaker 10:53
Well, in all candor, the what I have found to be the fastest portal into this as a gratitude practice. And people laugh at me, I remember I used to send executive leaders really beautifully. These leather binder like journals that would empty in the middle, right? And I’d send it and say, Okay, we’re gonna journal and they’d be like, no, not really, we’re not doing I don’t even know what that is next. So that’s why I ended up developing those journals that I did create, because it was more of a quick hit fast fix 10 minutes in the morning, 10 minutes at night, but they were still getting the mindset shift, to look for what was working instead of what wasn’t working, not to ignore what wasn’t working. But to understand that’s just a small part of the collective picture. So a gratitude practice is one really, really quick way, when you really get in the flow of it, to make that shift in mindset that’s requested to be a graceful leader.

Ginny Bianco-Mathis 11:47
So the 10 minutes in the morning, and the 10 minutes at night, begins to create a habit begins to grow that muscle.

Unknown Speaker 11:56
Yeah, we’ve, you know, a lot of times I’m reading now, like, what are the 10 mindfulness hacks or hack for this or a hack for this performance? I suppose gratitude could be considered a hack, right? And yes, it is a very, very specific and very heart centered activity, which is required in order

Ginny Bianco-Mathis 12:16
to enter grace. Now, would you In turn, or do you encourage leaders to then turn around paying, the whole team should be doing journaling?

Unknown Speaker 12:28
Well, sure, and not everybody’s going to journal right. So gratitude journaling is a entry point into a gratitude practice. It’s certainly not the only one. It’s effective. But there’s a lot of science about gratitude. Now you can you can do that through a gratitude walk, you can be in nature, you can practice, you’re just simply expressing appreciation where, where it matters. In real time, you know, one of the biggest feedback, pushback I get is, Oh, great. Now I’m gonna go tell everybody how thankful I am for them. And they’re all going to want to raise like, wow, okay, well, that’s a place to start, right. And, and so we have to have the conversation between recognition and gratitude. At some point, they could be the same thing, but they don’t necessarily have to write anything. Um, so there’s, again, it’s really bringing in some of that gray matter. And, and it doesn’t have to look the same for everybody. There’s a we’re working on gratitude in a library system and in Colorado right now. And so we spend quite a few weeks and everyone’s starts with a journal, but then 10% are always going to throw the journal in the corner and say, That’s not my thing. And there’s nothing wrong with that. They’re gonna find other ways. They’re like I write a note every day and drop it in a jar file for it. That’s awesome. You know? Yes. And you can get really creative. It’s really about looking for what’s working and looking for magical moments in life.

Ginny Bianco-Mathis 14:01
Yes, yes. And

Mitch Simon 14:04
what what is it? What does that look like when you’re when you’re in a team meeting? especially now with remote or hybrid teams? What might a gratitude practice look like on that team?

Unknown Speaker 14:15
Yeah, so Well, I can tell you exactly how it looks, because there’s quite a few I’m working with. So they’ll open up with what’s working before they go to solve a problem. And really, interestingly enough, is, um, especially when on purpose, we get cross functional teams coming together For this reason, they have really, really in especially in this, this more virtual world. They’re finding very innovative solutions, because all of a sudden, I’m listening to accounting Express says, Hey, we’re really thankful that we got the accounting cycle close 10% faster than we’re used to. This is why we’re doing it. All of a sudden, I’m in supply chain. I’m like, Oh my god, that thing will work over here through this application, and we’re able to do whatever we do for our ourselves. processes over here. And all of a sudden, the possibility has exponential impact. Because one person just came in and said, I’m really grateful that we got closed down in 10 days faster. And the other teams like, wow, I think we can use that over here. And they’re realizing that direct impact in a different way in the business. And that wasn’t happening before. Because quite frankly, we didn’t walk three stories up to the cabin. Right? We would. And that’s not a great way to do it all the time, for sure. And so that interaction wasn’t happening. So a lot of ways that happened combat like zoom fatigue, and things like that is to have these kinds of cross functional meetings, because it requires a level of presence. When you’re with people, you don’t know that if you’re doing the Monday, Monday, Monday morning meeting, call out with your intact team. Now with an intact team, you can do it, you can do it as well. There’s other ways to, like I call gratitude and action, like how did you express your gratitude, not just talking to. And those teams have myriad of different ways of expressing gratitude. And there’s a bazillion ways they really innovative ways they’re doing it. And that just keeps the possibility. So the other thing is, when you’re in and you start with the negative, which is going to happen, right, you have a crisis, we have to deal with it right now, the platitudes of nice, you know, utopia, are gonna have to be at the end of the meeting. Inevitably, someone comes, they state the crisis or problem, and then immediately someone on the team says, okay, what’s the possibility in the current situation? So now you acknowledge the situation, you’re not placating or gaslighting it, you’re acknowledging it, and then all of a sudden, you’re lifting your gaze up going, Okay, what’s the possibility? And that changes everything? versus here’s the problem, what are we going to do? Whose fault? Is it? data data? Oh, yeah.

Ginny Bianco-Mathis 16:54
So just concentrating on the concept of gratitude. And you can have concept, it can be a concept, or as you said, gratitude in action. You immediately are changing the mindset of how we’re approaching things. Yes. Because if I’m appreciating niche, I’ll be less inclined to say, Mitch, you’re driving me crazy.

Unknown Speaker 17:18
You say he’s driving you crazy. You’ll do it with kindness and love and respect for him that you might

Ginny Bianco-Mathis 17:22
not otherwise? Yes, yes. Yes, that’s fabulous. Can you share one or two? Or maybe the most significant of a turnaround you had? I mean, someone I would call a hard case, you know? Just did not want to go there to have gratitude stuff.

Unknown Speaker 17:45
Yeah, so I’m working in oil and gas for the client in Texas. And that’s a pretty, you know, engineering is kind of either works or doesn’t work, right. And you want that to be black and white, you don’t want to go the possibility in the plane taking off and standing. You’re not going to go that’s going to happen. Exactly. Right. So there’s a senior VP that I have the absolute honor of working with the past couple years. And in the beginning of our time together, he he said things like, Oh my god, do we really have to spend time being nice to each other? Can we just get to business?

Ginny Bianco-Mathis 18:22

Unknown Speaker 18:24
Yes. And, and it didn’t happen overnight. And let’s fast forward to he he was they were struggling with going virtual pre COVID. He’s like, Okay, this isn’t gonna work. We don’t need to bother with that. This is what we know works. I know those young people want the pleasure of working from home. But we’re not going to do that. Three months before COVID hit, he has a pretty developed HR business partner that knew that that’s what had to act and whether he knew it or not, yes, he was creating the framework and the possibilities and the systems. Well, he’s hearing this isn’t gonna happen. Three months later, COVID comes, it’s happening, whether you like it or not, it’s here. And thank God, they had some systems. It wasn’t perfect, but they weren’t totally caught off guard. And now this was this was just a, we all just sat there with a call like this. We were in an executive team meeting. And they’re talking about how to re enter the workforce, right? Because that’s a topic right now. And he’s like, they’re like, okay, so do we bring everybody back in? How are we going to do that? Are we going to do that? Where are we going to renew our lease all the conversations everybody’s dealing with? And he goes, You know what? We’re not going to do that right now. And everybody went, Paul, and he goes, No, I don’t think we’re ready yet. And when we do do it, it’s going to be voluntary. If someone feels ready and able and capable to do that, they can go back into the office with the right protocols. And if they don’t, we’re gonna have tolerance for that as well. And that is a field away from where he started a year now. Prior to COVID Yes, rats transformational?

Ginny Bianco-Mathis 20:04
Yes. Yeah, that’s wonderful. And of course, that message then is passed on to his team. And the richness keeps going.

Unknown Speaker 20:13
Yeah. And they’re innovating like nobody’s business right now, which is really

Mitch Simon 20:19
Alexi you had. So with that gentleman you had worked on, I guess you’d worked a year and a half on being present being grateful.

Unknown Speaker 20:26
Yeah. And and just, you know, we would talk about in his one on one sessions, like, what do you want for your life, no one had asked him that in a decade, right? measures that was easy, like, I need this, I need that I need that. And now all of a sudden, he’s like, I’ll continue in this role. If I don’t have to go back to the office very often. That’s him, Sam talking, I want to get in an RV. I want to travel the country. You know, I want to come spend time at Ubuntu and Lexie, I want to I want to do these things. And, and all of a sudden, all that became possible, simply overnight, and he sees a world of possibility for himself. And when you see it for yourself, it’s much easier to extend it to others. Ah, yeah, there you go.

Mitch Simon 21:08
I love this. I love this connection that you’re making between getting present feeling grateful and creating possibilities creating, you know, new things that wouldn’t have you wouldn’t have seen them before. Which is, which is again, it’s, it’s, it’s wonderful to see. And then it’s one of those things where as someone who doesn’t come from that background, how do you get me on the same page, to to have the patience to not throw away the journal to you know, sit for five minutes so that I can actually get to that place? That’s that’s, I think, the Is it the challenge of the opportunity? Yeah, I guess.

Unknown Speaker 21:48
Right. And so, yeah, I mean, that’s if you’re working with someone, that’s really the job of figuring out where the interest and the passion and the the previous moments of finding flow exists. Even if you have to go back to your college days, it doesn’t matter. You know, sometimes that’s where you weren’t so constrained with your reality of adulting, that you were more liberated to be experiencing life on life’s terms, which is really all any of us can do. COVID has got to teach us that. I mean, yeah, this is a tough place to be in a tough time to be there. But it’s so ripe for new possibilities. It’s so right.

Ginny Bianco-Mathis 22:26
Yeah. You recently wrote an article and you touched upon this a little bit on why some leaders? This is such a challenge for them. Why they won’t go on the journey.

Unknown Speaker 22:41
Yeah, so there was four, four piece parts of that article. And it was inconvenience, pain work and the rest of it. So the inconvenience is kind of like, there’s a little bit of a sacrifice. And in the example I use in the article was, we were building a home, we want to be good stewards of the planet. I come from oil and gas environment being in Texas for so long. So many of my clients are there. So and yeah, I was like, oh, should I have propane for backup energy? Because that’s, that’s a little incongruent with what we say we want to do here, you know, and so right. I mean, I have to learn how to use an induction stove. Oh, God, that’s gonna be awful, right. And it’s a conundrum because then then at the end of the day, I’m in the mountains, I need backup energy, it’s a reality. And the only source because we didn’t have solar yet is there’s a propane tank out in the yard. So there’s this constant wrestling between once you know who you are and where you’re going, and your purpose and your why in the world. There’s a reckoning, you have to do very frequently, but a bomb the alignment piece there. And that was a small example of one I’ve had to wrestle with.

Ginny Bianco-Mathis 23:50
And that’s great. Because make letting folks know it’s a fact. And you will be wrestling with it. Now you know more about yourself and where you want to go, and you’re gonna have a lot of wrestling. And that’s okay.

Unknown Speaker 24:05
Yeah, it’s part of the process. Yeah. And then another reason was pain. A lot of times when people enter into grace, and when they really can’t go into an internal conversation and your internal landscape, the reason you haven’t done it in the million masks that you’ve created to function in the world, your egoic self, which isn’t innately bad or good, it just is. Being willing to look behind those. If there’s a lot of courage, it takes many times depending, you know, variations of that for everybody, of course, but most of us would just rather not, you know, everything’s good until it’s not everything’s good. I don’t have any reason to go dig it up that monster. Yeah, I’m gonna be stupid.

Ginny Bianco-Mathis 24:48
Thank you.

Unknown Speaker 24:51
Some points. I mean, we all know it’s there. We never none of us got out of childhood without a wound, not one of us. And no matter how you topik your child But was there something there to deal with? And and why dredge it up? You know, but the reality is, is in order to get back to flow to create alignment to become a conscious being, that’s part of the process. Right? Right. Yeah. So work work was the part where you’re, you’re talking now about, you know, Mitch was like, Okay, let’s just get the results. And now I’m saying what types of feelings? results? He’s like, I don’t care. I got it. We’re good, you know. And so now being willing to talk about how we feel about things is, that’s a whole that’s a whole podcast on itself, right? Yeah. And people will do many, many things, addictions and otherwise to avoid feeling many things. Oh, yeah. No, there’s the there’s another rub. And then, but not much less to deal with my own feelings. But now I have a whole company of people that actually have feelings, that somehow I’m gonna have to synthesize. I’m good, we’re good. And then risk, you know, we talk about risk, we’ve come so far in our culture, litigious, Lee, that I mean, in bigger corporations, it’s hard to be a business leader and and know your people without feeling really tentative and cautious and maybe afraid to be able to ask them what we now consider intimate questions. Like, how come you’re not feeling good? Is there something I can do for you who don’t ask that question? Don’t. So we have those real barriers and a lot of our a lot of our business structures that create a real a real issue.

Ginny Bianco-Mathis 26:31
And so then we have to go to the to the gracefulness of the hole. And to give folks permission. It’s okay to go there.

Unknown Speaker 26:41
Yeah. safe. Yeah, the dilemma is, though, we can, this is the biggest one of the biggest hurdles is we can do that. And we can say that, and we can even mean that. And we can put up, you know, appreciative inquiry, we can do all kinds of good things in our organization. And then our HR system is still rewarding this other behavior. Oh, yeah. Right. So our compensation and our metrics actually frustrate this new system we’re trying to create. And so we actually end up at times doing more damage than we are good. So we have to be willing to overhaul our systems as well as our our internal systems as well as our external systems.

Ginny Bianco-Mathis 27:18
Yeah. Yeah. I like to say you have to build the infrastructures now to support it, or it just becomes mud on the wall. Oh, that’s interesting. And then they walk away from your retreat. Right? Well, this is fascinating. What? What recommendations do you have for leaders going into 2021?

Unknown Speaker 27:46
Oh, boy,

Unknown Speaker 27:49
I think that leaders going into 2021 needs to be still inside themselves more often than they’re willing to be. Because it can be uncomfortable. Yeah, I really listened to the intuitive sense of who they are, and then go test the hypothesis, do not assume your intuition is everybody’s truth, because it’s simply not reality. I sit here and say, as a business owner, I have an intuitive sense. Everybody wants to be back in the office, everybody. Right? Right. The truth is that, depending on the type of business, there’s going to be a bulk of people that actually that is true for. But there’s also going to be Lexie, who’s like, No, I’m not really I’m good over here. I’ve got my metrics all working out, I’ve got to figure it out. I don’t need to be back in the office. And so there’s, there’s a very big conversation around the flow of how we work right now. And leaders. And many of the leaders that I have the honor to work with are willing to hold that conversation and really allow the conversation to evolve over a period of time, rather than one conversation, a decision of executing, says this is an emotionally heavy lift for everyone.

Ginny Bianco-Mathis 29:00
But you just said there is an incredible amount of patience. I think that comes with a graceful leader. It doesn’t happen all in the one meeting. And that’s uncomfortable for them. Right. As you said, it’s real typical low, I really did the problem solving and the cost benefit analysis and here’s the decision. You are so right. Just that mindset. What’s the whole new hybrid environment is forcing us to look at.

Unknown Speaker 29:32

Ginny Bianco-Mathis 29:33
that’s a great, I really love that standstill. We’ve learned that. Mitch, any final thoughts.

Mitch Simon 29:43
I would love to end this podcast with a couple you know, practices that you would suggest that leaders take on because yes, we’ve been in this for a year. I just I just do think that a lot of people have used this here, too. To find out that there’s something to listen to, in themselves, but still have not like kicking and screaming, like, I don’t know, I’m not going there, I’m just gonna wait for this thing to go over and go back to normal. And, of course, what you’re pointing out is that these are, these are just incredibly great leadership skills, that the this new environment has, you know, thrust upon us. And so for those of us who are not yet practicing patience, and, and grace, and listening to our intuition, what are some practices that you would suggest that we take?

Unknown Speaker 30:40
Yeah, so I think it’s going to be obvious that I’m going to say gratitude practice. And it doesn’t have to be a journal, it can literally be many other things. The next thing is, I would say, use the skill of curiosity. And when you feel like you’re digging in, or you have resistance to an internal conversation with yourself, or definitely when it’s external to people that you’re leading, that you offer yourself the pregnant pause of grace to say, Hmm, I’m curious about why this is happening. And I’m going to pause for a minute enough to look. And then listen, before I act. A lot of things that we thought we knew in the business structure are no longer true. They’ve been shattered. And I’m not I would even assert that they were never true. But we had them cloaked so well, inside a system. Yes, we have them to be true. And maybe perhaps a better way to say is that the real truth is sitting there waiting for a leader who’s brave enough to really make the inquiry gently and kindly into it. And the third thing is to just be gentle with yourself. And, and be willing to look within whether that’s with a coach in a meditation practice sitting out in nature and talking to a tree, your dog, it doesn’t matter. But be willing to take a look at it. You. Yeah.

Ginny Bianco-Mathis 32:06
Those are great. Those were great. lexy your book is out. Yeah, I guess we can find it. Where?

Unknown Speaker 32:17
On Amazon.

Ginny Bianco-Mathis 32:18
Okay, on Amazon. And of course, we can find you on LinkedIn and your website, and Facebook

Unknown Speaker 32:25
and Instagram. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 32:29
Yeah. All right.

Ginny Bianco-Mathis 32:31
Thank you so much for being with us today. It’s been very rich.

Unknown Speaker 32:36
Thank you very much for the time. And thank you. I’ve listened to several of the podcasts and I’ve got I’ve gotten some really good nuggets myself, and I appreciate you both making the time to offer this to the world. Thank you.

Ginny Bianco-Mathis 32:48
Thank you, Lexi.

Mitch Simon 32:49
All right. Well, thank you. Thank you, Jimmy. Thank you, Lexi, for being our guest. And thank you to our great listeners for another episode of team anywhere and please share this podcast like Lexi is with your friends because yeah, there’s a lot of really great information on how we handle this new hybrid world together. All right, and we’ll see you next time.

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