Transcript: Create A Return to Work Plan that Fits Your Purpose

Transcribed by

Mitch Simon 0:02
Hello and welcome to another exciting episode of team anywhere. I Mitch Simon on the west coast. And with me is my co host, Ginny Bianca Mathis, on the east coast. She’s actually in Florida today,

Ginny Bianco-Mathis 0:16

Mitch Simon 0:17
Florida. Also on the East Coast, really on the east coast. We have back on the podcast. Rachel Casanova, senior Managing Director of workplace innovation at Cushman and Wakefield, a leading global real estate service firm. Now we had Rachel on as a guest on episode five. And that episode is still our most downloaded episode. This week, we actually reached 2000 downloads. Thank to you. Thanks to all of our great guests. Now. I’m so excited to have Rachel because what’s keeping me up at night? Is is how do people take this new world and really translated into their real estate and creating places for people to thrive and come back to if they’re coming back? Are they always coming back? never coming back half assed? I don’t know. But Rachel does. So we hope she does. So Rachel, so excited to have you back on the podcast. I think this is six months since we had you on how have you been?

Unknown Speaker 1:24
I am doing well. I am going to tell you it’s a spoiler alert, I don’t have the answers. But I have some insight that might lead you to define your own answers about what you think are going to happen. We’ve just it’s amazing how the last six months even before that the six months prior, it’s been two week intervals of changing the human psyche of changing the news of the priorities. So you’re getting me today. And if we did this in two weeks, we might be in a different place. But as we’ve watched, you know, first it was testing, then it was vaccinations, then it’s the vaccine, that vaccine, it comes up the market goes back on the social unrest, like there’s so many things, and we are boiling this down to work. And yet, as humans, we are multi dimensional, and we are consumers. And we are citizens. And we are workers. And I think that that’s this moment that is incredibly interesting that those worlds are really all of them are equally important. We can’t be absent to the others and just say, Well, what happens with work?

Mitch Simon 2:27
I love that. Has there anything that you’ve learned this year? That is just absolutely surprised you rock your world wasn’t expecting?

Unknown Speaker 2:37
And I’ll give you the the first answer is yes, one of the things I think we never would have anticipated is that people could make decisions in two week intervals, that we were so used to the plot of a movie where there’s, you know, the intro, there’s the antagonist, the protagonist, and then there’s the conclusion, and in two hours, you get to the end. And we have had to see ourselves get used to this multi. Hi, this multi. The middle of the movie keeps happening. The end is not here. But you know, I say to my children, when is school over? They said we don’t know. It’s not it’s not clear when tests are going to be and when they end up school is and they’ve changed their system of when they go to school and when they don’t numerous times. And the response from people at first was how could they do this? Why don’t they know and now there’s just a recognition, I couldn’t go back to that news source because I’m going to get updated and then in an acceptance in some ways. So that’s a bit surprising to me, and uplifting, because I think as you think about how we’re looking at the future, I don’t think the future is the conclusion I don’t think we’re going to close the book, it’s going to be a choose your own adventure. And there’s going to be so many paths that we’re going to this is a moment of learning and of significant change. That in hindsight might look clear. But this, this response, this answer is going to take I think many forms.

Ginny Bianco-Mathis 4:03
Well, it’s almost living with ambiguity. People are which is so hard psychologically. And yet they’re going What else can I do?

Unknown Speaker 4:13
Yeah. So embrace it. I mean, you only see what you see. But I would I would say that the the banter about that frustration has lessened. And you might be upset about one decision, but there’s a recognition it might not be the last one. The CDC, you know, who would expect that we would allow the CDC of all entities to change their mind and we’ve had to. So I think that that’s exciting. And I, as I compare that to the world of work, I think of it in the digital agile development mindset where we do some research, we get some ideas, we test those ideas, we go back and refine them. When we think about our interaction with our mobile phones. You bought the device, but you have agency to make that device look and act as you You want it to my old reference was Nike let me design with their swoosh what I want my shoes to look like. And so there’s this, there’s this newfound kind of understanding of process that is not defined the problem, go answer it and live with it, it’s go answered. And as we know better, just let’s keep going, which is completely antithetical to the real estate industry. And the architecture.

Mitch Simon 5:26
That’s true. So I guess what I’m getting is that, you know, every company to really be successful in this new world, is to really take on agile principles and say, Okay, so let’s look at this next two weeks is a sprint. That’s right. I don’t have any idea what’s gonna be happening Two weeks later. So what can we focus on right now and make it work?

Unknown Speaker 5:49
Yeah, we’re working with a client, who is I would say, on the forefront of solving their workplace question. And but they specifically said, this is a pilot, there wasn’t a period at the end of it, or an exclamation point. I think the pilot is sort of long, it’s a September to June pilot. But they’ve come out with a point of view. And the recognition is they’re going to learn don’t go making major life decisions based on this. We’re going to test this solution. And they’ve been very clear about what that is. And they’re going to see. So I don’t know the question you asked initially, but of what I know. What I know is that we’re going to have to adopt a sit back recognize you’re not going to have the answer. There is not one and there wasn’t one answer before there’s not one answer. Now. Stay calm, it’s kind of don’t don’t play into the the fury of what it feels like. And there’s so much being written around this in the mainstream media that everyone’s talking about it, I talked to my parents about it, I go out to dinner, it’s the conversation, I go to work, it’s the conversation. This too shall pass the pendulum will come back might take a slightly different angle. But slow and steady, I think has a lot of merit.

Mitch Simon 7:04
What is what is a business owner to do? What what what do you think successful managers and business owners have been doing to? have their employees confront this? Let’s say a two week sprint situation or a not having the answers because, again, you know, every podcast wants to come out with and these are the three things that you should do. And then Rachel, with all of her, her Gall comes on and says, there are no answers match. Now what what what what could you do to help managers who are living through this right now, some suggestions?

Unknown Speaker 7:40
So the first thing is communication. And the expectation for coming from for communication just continues to grow with authenticity? So, you know, being able to say, I don’t know, within reason not I don’t know, and I hope it works out. But I don’t know. But here’s what I do know. But that authenticity is so important right now, I think the other thing from a business perspective is we have to allow businesses to have their objectives, we have really swung the messaging towards the individual, and I would not undo that. But this is about your mental health and your strength and your ability to do great work and what you need. But I also think that the context has to be within where the business is trying to go. And even if their employees aren’t asking for that, I think it gives rationale to any decisions that they do make. And I’m not saying don’t make any decisions, some companies have some clarity, and they know what they want. I am suggesting It’s okay, if you’re not right, be authentic with we’re going to try this, do something, I think the first thing we have to encourage his behavior is there is an expression, a colleague said of FOMO fear of going out. And so I actually think if employers said, We want you to come back once in the month of May, even though employees aren’t saying they will do that, I think getting their feet going. And I think employers right now have this opportunity to help people. Because when lift left to their own decision making, I’ve seen it the fear of how do I get to the city in New York, how do I like I don’t know how to get on a train anymore, what’s going to happen when I get there? And that fear of anticipation, I think may be greater than the then what happens. So I think I do think leaders have an opportunity to say something.

Mitch Simon 9:37
Yeah, so you’re, you know, you’re really putting out there for leaders to challenge and provoke their employees to like come out of the cave. And I’m, I’m assuming that there will be some employees that are like, gosh, I need some direction. And then there’ll be some employees that say How dare he or she Tell me what to do because, quote, unquote, the world’s coming to coming apart. And if I go to work, it’s gonna be horrible,

Unknown Speaker 10:07
right? But this is no different, right? We know that adoption of things, there are people who are back, who can’t understand why there’s an issue. And there are people who would respond to what we’re talking about. And there’s a big middle, who’s gonna say, How did it go? I’m waiting. And I don’t think it should be without exception for that person who says, I can’t, I won’t, I have a responsibility. I’m a caregiver, things like that. So I’m not saying to ignore those issues. But I think a little bit of suggestion might go a long way. And the other thing that the that has to happen is those organizations have to think about what it takes to make a great experience. So if I did it, and it was terrible, and I came in and you weren’t prepared. And, you know, though, you come back and you see things on whiteboards that are a year old, and it feels stale and uncomfortable. That’s not gonna work. So the first thing is to make the suggestion of getting their feet moving. The next is to ensure that it was worth it. tough task. But we talked about this last time thinking like a consumer. So what would make a great I walked in, I’ve been in my office a few times, but I walked in, and it was a bag of, of stuff. It was it was cleaning materials, mostly. But it was well done. And it was a note and it was, you know, things that made me feel comfortable. I know one organization who actually had someone kit, not really a scalable solution, but who went and took pictures of people’s desks and sent it to them before they came. Right. They they were onboarding corporate America, everyone. So make it easy. Think about something as simple as food, or something else that made my life easier. And just imagine that everyone is almost like a new employee when it comes to this. Oh,

Ginny Bianco-Mathis 12:02
I love that. You’re almost onboarding reboarded rewarding. Reporting reporting.

Mitch Simon 12:09
Yes, Jenny, that was the word that we used as we when we met.

Unknown Speaker 12:18
story, but

Ginny Bianco-Mathis 12:20
and then what this reminded me of is realizing people have created their new infrastructure. Right? This virtual half in half out. Now if What does going back mean? That’s another change? Yes,

Unknown Speaker 12:39
entirely. And I like change, and I have welcomed it. So but I do recall my first day taking the train from the suburbs of New York City, and going in and, and watching what the how the system worked. Now, I don’t think that that’s my employer’s responsibility. But I will tell you, there are employees who are absolutely saying what do you my employer going to do to make that experience easier and better? So the responsibility is being pushed earlier? The question of, well, what am I going to do about childcare? There were just there was an expectation that when I get hired, my job is to figure out how I get to work. How do I take care of my responsibilities? Right? Like That wasn’t the employers job? Right now, those questions are being talked about, which I find fascinating. And I’m not sure what employers want to take on. Oh, that is there. Oh, thanks for sharing that. That’s

Ginny Bianco-Mathis 13:34
just blowing my mind right now. How that just shifted. So how are you going to help me with this?

Unknown Speaker 13:41
That’s right. And we haven’t even gotten to how often do I come in? Like, we haven’t even gotten to that question. But that’s the one that’s everyone’s talking about. That last mile is the first thing or the first mile on the last mile that how do I get out of my house? And how do I get that last mile to work? And obviously, depending on the market, and if I drive, I have a different expectation. But um, so that’s one you asked me for some right takeaways. That’s one, the next one, we can anticipate the day one will not be a single day. So we’re going to see this progression and whether we call it hybrid or not, we’re not going to flip a switch to the final state, which means we are necessarily going to have people in the office and not in the office. On any given day. We didn’t have a great technology, ubiquitous technology solution in most environments before COVID. So picture that time that you went and someone wasn’t in the room, and someone needed to have a screen share, and so on, and it quickly amounts to someone get it. I can’t get all this to work. we transitioned sometimes clumsily. But we got there that with one click, I can see you. I can share my screen you can hear me other than the mute button which continues to play people But it is a one click solution. When people come back into the office and go into that meeting room, let’s assume it’s a safe environment, we can do this and experience that. It is going to be a train wreck. How else do I say train wreck? The frustration The last time the why don’t I just go back to my desk or home? The mainstream media says how do you include the people who are at home. But I would challenge that to say it’s both sides. So you may have your most critical people digitally connected. And it’s the people who are in the office who need to be involved. Well, what happens and I just happened to me where the people who are at home, are on at the o clock, they’re ready to go. The people in the room are trying to figure out how to get it done, Oh, we got the audio, we can’t get the video so on and so forth. Their heads are tiny, whereas our heads are equally sized. So one is the obvious one is when people in the room, how do you to help the people who are online, but I would contend the people online may have a superior experience to the ones in the room. And when that room has a booking right after it and they get kicked out. But the people online can continue. So if we don’t put some real attention forget redesigning the office, I don’t think that that’s the first problem at hand. I think it’s the connectivity of people in different environments that we have to solve for or or back to that day one experience, we will have a harder time getting them to day two, because Day One might be so frustrating.

Ginny Bianco-Mathis 16:41
Oh, that is so beautiful. I know that even for myself, envisioning what you the nightmare that you just brought out? I already made it clear. And of course they’re laughing at me. I’m not going back into the classroom. Unless I have a tech person with me the entire time. Yeah,

Mitch Simon 17:02
that’s a good idea. Actually Ginny.

Unknown Speaker 17:05
Lee, right. My daughter who’s 14 is a tech assistant for a religious school class. And she’s exactly that she’s working with second graders who fill in the blanks on how crazy that must be. But the teacher spends no time trying to get them into breakout rooms or doing anything. Making sure the content is shared, she is focused on the students, and my 14 year old is ensuring this seamless experience.

Mitch Simon 17:35
Wow, can we hire your 14 year old? Yeah. I would like to do that for our show. That’s a great. So what you’re saying is, is it’s not going to be pretty when we come back. But on the other hand, Rachel, you’re saying you need to make it great. When you come back? So, um, you know, what is? What is the business owner to do you hear?

Unknown Speaker 18:02
Um, so great question. I don’t think either of these are insurmountable. So we just laid out two things to solve for. And you probably at any scale, you probably have an office manager, who just knew the kid who knew how to make that great, are intended to make that great before, it’s just that the needs right now are somewhat different. We know what the problem is in the conference room. We know how we need to solve for it. And there’s multiple ways you might do that even in an ad hoc kind of way. Maybe it is that you have audio in the room, and everyone comes in with a laptop. So their video is on but you have only one audio feed like it’s not unfixable. But without intention, it will get messy and people just want the guidebook, how do I do this? Great. I’m going to go do it. And I’m I encourage within the right questions that talk to people. So back to agile design, we hypothesize and we go test and we talk to our users. I don’t think we need to ask our users a broad question about what would get you back in. But I think, you know, a business leader says, you know, these are the things I think are important. We’re going to have lunch on the first day, we’re going to make sure that we have cleaning, support, whatever those things are, and then have conversations with your employees or your managers and say, why would this work? Or what won’t work? What did we forget? And I think doing that early on, doesn’t have to be like, crazy specific, we don’t have to get down to persona obviously depends on the scale, but you don’t need to go through a personas exercise and so on. But think about some basic needs. And think about how you might solve for it, what it’s going to cost you. So obviously there’s an investment there and throw it out there. Help people imagine what it’s going to be like and find out if that’s right, and then do it. And I think that whole authenticity, that transparency of how you’re thinking about it goes a long way and brings people along to say I’ll I’ll participate Pay even the one who’s not the one who wants to go out? Well, if you got me some if I could, if I could have a caregiver on demand on that day, if I could take an Uber to work that day, you know, Jitney ideas is only works in certain markets. But we certainly saw it on the West Coast before, way before COVID, if I had a Jitney that was run by my business, and that I could just drive within 10 miles to get on that vehicle. And that vehicle takes me to the office, I’d come. Okay, now a business owner has to evaluate the value of everyone being together versus Let’s wait it out. And we wouldn’t be able to suppose for them. The value proposition, which I think goes back to with that authenticity, explaining to people why you think it’s important, the CEO of JPMorgan, it’s in their annual report, and why they think it’s important for people to come together. Same thing with city, same thing with Amazon and Google, they’re all talking about why the value. And that’s not new, either, right thing, Marissa Mayer with Yahoo, 15 years ago, whether you liked it or not, she was explicit. The reason we’re coming back is we’re losing tot, we’re losing innovation, we’re losing these things. And we have to be okay, having that conversation and the duality of what’s right for the business. And what I as an employee feel as important. Now there’s a there’s a rub there, because what’s right for me, and what’s right for the business don’t always fully align. I think we’re headed for this rub, where we’re gonna figure out how companies are going to manage that.

Mitch Simon 21:38
So I have a question I remember, I listen to Patrick lencioni a lot. And what Patrick talked about was, your employees are going to remember how you treated them, when they were all sent home in 2020. Seems to me that there’s an opportunity now because your your, your employees who have been at home for, let’s say, 14 months, are now going to re engage with the company, the you know, which is I think we’re talking about this is almost like your first day at work. Right. reboarding. And the other thing, you you, you mentioned in the in the, in the podcast, we had you on episode five was that business owners need to really treat their, their employees like consumers, like more of a retail environment. How does? How does a business owner, you know, let’s say cater to the needs of individuals who have basically been at their homes, where, you know, if I want to talk to Rachel at 10 o’clock, I can show up, boom, 10 o’clock, it’s on if I want my pizza at 1005, it’s here. If I want my groceries delivered, if I want my laundry delivered, you know, it’s I’ve been able to get everything exactly what I want it without having to even put gasoline in my car, I still have one of those types of cars. How do you think a business owner is going to actually set up expectations where the employee is going to come back? It’s gonna be messy, and employers gonna go, gosh, I really want to come back again. And to these people, or you know what, I’m out. I’m gonna go find myself an employer that doesn’t ask me to get my shoes on.

Unknown Speaker 23:34
So have you heard in on the economic side, this idea of this K, the K return? Where there was a you there was a V, the economy? Yeah, okay. Right. I think we’re gonna see this, again, where some are going to feel that this is great. Like, let’s recall that there are cons to what you just described, as well as the pros, just like they were cons to go into work, as well as there were pros. And we’re going to see business owners make some decisions on who they who they want to be and how important those individual needs are. There are plenty of organizations who were working in a virtual distributed way before COVID. This is not new. But it is new for those who have depended upon bricks and mortar to do their work. And we’re either going to see this great divide between what business leaders want and employees want. Or we’re going to be able to recognize that the pros and cons come with each. And we’re all gonna give a little. And I don’t think we know and I guess I would go back to what I said before that there’s not one answer. I think some businesses are going to do great and thrive. Those that were not maybe ready for this kind of redo, are going to struggle and they’re going to make that extreme decision, because they’re going to say I’ve got to get approval. Out the door, I’ve got to get clients. We’re spending so much time debating this, forget it. Let’s just go back to the old way. And I think we don’t know who’s gonna end up where

Ginny Bianco-Mathis 25:13
I think you’re right. I like to come down on that word, giving people more flexibility in that decision. Perhaps that’s what we take with us. And that will be different, as you say, as each organization decides, what is our personality going to be going forward?

Unknown Speaker 25:37
Yeah, and I use the word flexibility we’ve used for so long that I fear it’s Miss misunderstood because we mean so many things. But my word that I’ve been referring to is agency, and are we going to give people agency, I do also think there’s three layers to this, it is an individual agency to make a decision where they’re probably going to make a personal prioritization. Then we talk about the business, and what they have agency to do and what they need. And I think the missing middle layer, but we have to recognize is that we’re in, we’re in teams and organizations to work together. And if we’re not careful, we’re going to jump to just the business or just the individual. But agency also has to come at the team level and what works for them. I think we think about the manager who just gets the report from above that says we’re giving agency people can choose what days they want to come in. And they’re going to make those decisions based on their own personal preferences. I want to work from home Monday, Monday and Friday, I have childcare issues on Wednesday, whatever those decisions are. Now you’ve got a manager of a team, team, lead project manager, any of these, who is up against the fact that we have a really important deadline client meetings, say what you want on Friday. And now my employees says, I don’t come in on Fridays. But I think you didn’t need to be in on Friday. This is a really important time. Nope, that’s not what I do. Like, we’re setting up this potential disaster if we don’t figure out and ask the question of teams to make those decisions collectively. Because that’s where the work happens. And, and are all of us as peers ready to have the difficult conversations with each other to say, you know, Jenny, it was, it was really hard to follow up find you on Tuesday, and we really have this deadline, and you seem to your personal schedule, isn’t working for the team. That’s a hard peer to peer and manager to employee is ready for those conversations? Yeah, I think.

Mitch Simon 27:45
No, I think we’re hitting on. Yeah, I love where this conversation is going. We’re hitting we’re hitting on. This is, you know, this is the giant redo like the vino, capital, our redo. And this is an opportunity or actually a necessity, that companies and employees get really clear on what they believe in. what’s what’s important to them. Otherwise, this is going to be extremely messy. We need to get, you know, really clear on on what we believe in what what do we care about what’s important to us, because that needs to be at the core of our conversations. So, you know, I frankly, would love to spend the rest of my life never leaving my house. yet. If my company is about we believe in team and support, and we believe about this, this beautiful product or service that we’re making, then it’s important for us to say, you know, there’s their team is important to us. And we frankly don’t know what it looks like in this new world. But let’s talk about this

Unknown Speaker 28:54
today. Right? So

Unknown Speaker 28:56
yes, authenticity

Unknown Speaker 28:57
and purpose driven organizations, if a purpose driven organization is explicit about that, and hires those who align with that purpose, some of this should fall to the background, because I and we and they are all I understand my value proposition in all three of those.

Ginny Bianco-Mathis 29:15
Yes, yes, exactly. And also, what does working at home me? I will be able to get in touch with you.

Unknown Speaker 29:25
If we all come to that agreement, being away from the office doesn’t mean I’m not Yeah, and you just made me think of something I feel like it’s more about time working than it is about where working because we can overcome it. We can overcome any of these. The Office has just been a default to because I can see you three dimensionally. I know you’re there. I know. I can ask for something. If I know I have that with you wherever you are in the world. That’s not what matters. Time. Tracking where we are accountability. The organizations we’re in wholeheartedly great at this Before COVID that’s what that’s what my fear is. That’s why the office, I think the office has value in many different ways. But the office has value as a catch all. And that we know you’re going to be there. So there’s a sense that there’s a confidence that I can get you in, I need you. Right? Think about all the people who work from home before COVID. And the ones who said, I do laundry, this and that. And you’re like, Oh, don’t talk about this. You’re ruining it for everyone. If the thought is that when you say you’re working from home, you’re actually running errands and doing laundry that’s not working from home.

Ginny Bianco-Mathis 30:32
That is correct. And it goes back to what you said, Mitch, we have to define that. And it’s best to define it together as entities, and it will be different. It’s going to be an HR nightmare.

Mitch Simon 30:48
Fine, I find that the I know, you asked the where question. I really do think that going forward, we’re in we’re in the how questions. So the if we are really clear on our purpose, and I really do think that business leaders right now, and that’s why I’m working with my clients right now is we need to get super clear on our purpose. Because then from that question, we can basically say, Okay, so this is really important to us, we’re going to come to the office, it’s going to be messy. And that’s okay. And we’re going to use these, let’s say two weeks segments or sections to kind of test stuff. And why are we testing this stuff, because we’re going back to our purpose. So it’s not a matter of how many days you want to work. This is the conversation we’re having before the podcast, it’s not a matter of how many days you want to work. It’s really, how can we fulfill our purpose? So does it make sense? Are we to fulfill our purpose by getting in a conference room and all being on our own screens? Or having one microphone or whatever the technology should follow the purpose? And I think that that’s, I think, the new redo, I think that’s the new game, which is getting really, really clear on that

Unknown Speaker 32:08
long way around why I don’t know what I don’t know, is because the workplace needs to respond to the how it always has the reason we designed newsrooms where because paper went from one to the next to the next. And it was the most efficient thing. We didn’t change the workplace because we thought a workplace could be different. But we changed how we work with change, that we don’t have linear teams that physically hand things from one person to the next. We are involved in things where overhearing conversation was important, right? Where a spontaneous conversation is relevant. were being able to check in with your colleague, it wasn’t anyone saying we should have an open office for the sake of an open office. It might have come with, with its the damage is but it was done with intention. We are at that moment, again, where this is forcing business process and workflow to be in question, maybe even your product and what you offer to your clients has changed. That needs time to become to solidify, so we can figure out how to define the workplace. Real estate in the workplace is the lagger. We don’t you don’t get new space without a plan because you were going to grow your business. And I know why it’s so tempting. And it’s the tangible thing that people want the answer to right now. But it’s not the place you start, even when people hypothesize people are going to come in to collaborate. Maybe, maybe they were doing great. We have an online collaboration world where I can not only have face to face communication, but we are using multiple tools and thumbs ups and texts, you know, like a sidebar conversation. This isn’t so bad. So exactly right. Like I still would like to be next to people. You can say, well, Mitch, I’m going back. But but there’s some great things. So how is that going to change how we collaborate and meet? That needs to be figured out, which is sort of why I say do less than more. Let’s use the new capabilities that we now have. Yes, get people to come in, try it out, see where the rubs are see where the band aids needs to be put. That’s how we’re going to define successfully where to invest your money. The technology thing I’m just saying is a is a stopgap because we know it’s going to frustrate people, but bigger investments, if it’s up to me, and my buyer is often not the CFO. So that CFO we’ve seen plenty out there who say cut it 30% 40% we’re not using it and I can understand that. In business. That’s the way it works. And sometimes we then solve for a cheaper solution. But if we had our druthers, let’s really understand how work is happening. We’ve also if you read if you Think about reading the news, we are talking about work like it is one thing. When you see these articles, there is little recognition that an engineer of different kinds, or a scientist, or a salesperson, or anyone else might need different things, we’ve done this down to man to machine, and that we’re all doing the same thing. And we’re not. So even more reason we need to open eyes, open areas, we need evidence we need to watch and then come up with ideas. So I’ve sort of said we need to do and then strategize, not strategize, and then do.

Mitch Simon 35:38
I love it. Wow, this has been sensational, sensational, sensational conversations. And I think, you know, if you’re looking for answers, I actually got a lot of answers on this podcast. I think a

Unknown Speaker 35:53
lot of the answers now that I

Ginny Bianco-Mathis 35:56
really do think your summary?

Mitch Simon 35:58
Well, I’m going to, I’m going to summarize from what I heard, which is, you know, I really do think that companies need to get very, very clear on, you know, why they do what they do, what they really do care about. And I think that it’s time now for company leaders and owners to realize that this next segment is going to be messy. Rachel doesn’t have the answers. Jeannie doesn’t have the answers. I actually have all the answers. You know, we don’t have the answer. The answer, though, is really going to be this, this newfound confidence in trying stuff out, and bringing the employees in to try stuff out. Because the, the, you know, if I’m a company, I’ve got, you know, 10 engineers and 10 marketing people, it’s not one size fits all. But there are some things that are collective around our company that we that we all kind of believe in and love. But still, it’s it’s this is a time as we’re reshaping work, and we’re reshaping our companies, we’re gonna have to try stuff we’re gonna have to, we’re gonna fail at a lot of stuff. But what I see is this unique opportunity to get even closer with our employees to say, we’re in this redefinition of work together. Yes. And it’s messy. But man, is it worth it, because we’re going to come out with given new tools, and new mobile cars or whatever, we’re going to find some really great solutions that are going to be much more meaningful to us personally, and is going to deliver greater outputs and outcomes for our clients.

Ginny Bianco-Mathis 37:43
And we look at the end solution, we look for the offer going back, or it’s not one way or the other. The two week time frame, I also think psychologically is very powerful. Well, I can live with this for two weeks. And then I know I’m going to be given the mindful opportunity to comment on it. That’s a that’s a wonderful paradigm.

Mitch Simon 38:08
Wonderful paradigm. Yeah. So we need to we need to Rachel, we need to go out there. And Jenny, we need to go teach people agile, I guess,

Unknown Speaker 38:14
I think, I think so. The other thing that you didn’t say, but that I would take away from it is if if you define that organizational drive those drivers, you then solve in an innovative agile way, how you then adjust how you do your work. I think that nature of that brings innovation to the business. So you’re actually using it as a mechanism to show people a new way. And I I don’t want to put everyone every company in the classification of everyone wants innovation. But I think that’s most and we’re teaching our to your point about getting closer to your employees. This is sort of like living through this gets us a new way of thinking about our business and our relationship to the company to be more innovative in the future we will have, we will have captured and succeeded, even through failure. Each of these steps and it will teach us as an organization how to do it again.

Unknown Speaker 39:07
Oh, I love it.

Mitch Simon 39:09
Great. Thank you. Wow, Rachel, thank you once again for a beautiful living a lot of beautiful podcasts these days. Yeah. Beautiful, beautiful conversation a lot for people to think about. And, again, how can people reach reach you? Where can they find you, Rachel,

Unknown Speaker 39:26
you can find me on LinkedIn. Rachel Casanova, like new house or house new one s one. You can find me on Twitter as well. And certainly through Cushman and Wakefield.

Mitch Simon 39:41
Great. Great. Well, thank you, Rachel. Thank you, Jenny. And thank you for Thank you. Thank you, Rachel. It’s been a another great episode of team anywhere. If you’ve loved this episode, or any other episodes, please share this episode with your friends and colleagues as well as comment and give us a five Start reading. And until next week, have a great weekend. We’ll see you next time on another episode of team anywhere.

Transcribed by